It seems like there’s a gap there.
That I would support but not because there is a gap but because its our Vision.
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I’m pretty far left though.
[Edit] What does the centre stand for? Nothing?
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One of my favourite facebook groups is ultra-radical centrists. Radical centrism is about fixing problems with outside-the-box thinking as an alternative to just throwing money or curbing freedom. But there is a strong focus on pragmatism which could be seen as a bit Frank-Underwood-ish.
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I don’t think we’re centrist at all though. We seem to be solidly bottom left on the political compass @MarkG posted, or at least solidly on the bottom.
Here’s my most recent result for reference, but I’ve ended up further right before (though always left of centre):
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Yeah, I would be suprised if many Pirates sat outside of the libertarian left quadrant on the political compass. I did the test again because it varies a bit each time I do it. I just had a nap, so might be a bit grumpier than usual. This time I got:
Economic Left/Right: -8.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.79
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Problem is that I thought way too many of the questions were bullshit questions, like they want a 1 dimensional answer when it’s not a one dimensional problem.
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For whatever it’s worth, I’d self rate at somewhere in the range of -5 to -8 Lib/Auth and 0 to -2 Left/Right.
Agreed. Most major disagreements I see around here aren’t really classifiable as Economic Left vs Right. There are several points of contention that aren’t captured by this chart at all. From the 2016 ratings you’d expect me to agree with the Greens, for example, but that is not the case.
Solutions. It can stand for solutions.
The thing is, that the political left and right are not really opposites. For example, we can’t have nice social programmes if we don’t have a thriving economy to pay for them. We can’t really have liberty without stability. Etc.
Also, as a gross generalisation, the more liberal minded people are better at imagining a better future just because they want to make things better, but the conservatives are better at making the plan into a reality and maintaining it, just because they like stability and structure.
I think the supposedly opposite sides of politics have forgotten that they are two sides of the same coin.
It is only one axis more informative than left vs right. I wouldn’t put a great deal of store in the result, I just think it illustrates the problem with calling ourselves radical centrists, we aren’t that.
Left vs right isn’t just an economic question, it is about the importance you place on social equality. That is why we argue about what emphasis to place on directly tackling social inequalities. I think these problems need to be addressed directly, where you are happy with fixing inequalities in terms of legalities, but addressing the social aspect is a bridge to far for you. Not trying to start an argument, explaining why we approach issues from different perspectives and we have different results on the political compass. We have different values. That is fine, no-one is ever going to agree on everything.
According to Wikipedia, the right believe:
Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences or the competition in market economies. The term right-wing can generally refer to “the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system.”
I’m opposed to that shit right there. I am left wing. I think everyone should have a roughly equal status in society and everyone should be looked after by society.
I think a good chunk of the population are naturally progressive, and a good chunk of the population are naturally conservative. Studies have been done and I think posted in the forums about how the different sides of politics think. Whilst I understand that, I cannot understand the mind of a conservative, because I love new stuff, new people and new ways of being, where they react with fear to new things. It is a completely different way of thinking. I have no desire to ally with conservatives, I want a different world.
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And that’s where we differ.
Not that I align with right wing thought (I posted my honest test results above), but because I think that being ‘opposed’ to peoples values or concerns is largely useless. It produces little of value. There are better ways forward.
Edit: I want to take this point further. Take a look at our policies. They aren’t expressed as opposition to things. They take a fresh look at situations and present a new way.
We don’t oppose or support gay marriage. We tease it apart and declare that government involvement (civil aspects) shouldn’t discriminate but neither should we try to impose anything on traditional religious practices.
Our military policy is a recommendation to be more like a porcupine than a lion.
Our social security policy is about it being efficient and not a poverty trap, so people can be productive, not suffer and be more free.
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How do you reconcile stuff like fundamental disagreements on social equality? Forming different parties and fighting for what we believe is a fine way to do it. I don’t see how to reconcile a fear of difference with an acceptance of difference. The values systems are diametrically opposed. I won’t accept a moderate racism, racism is shit. Fuck those people.
Is this a fight for the identity of the Party? If we call ourselves centrist, I am out of here. I am not centrist. I want equality, at least in terms of opportunity and if this isn’t the vehicle to fight for it, I need another vehicle.
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You responded before my edit.
See above.
That’s why I said “radical centrist”.
It’s not about compromising to be only “a little racist”. I agree that’s stupid. It’s more like finding ways to live in the same country, even though some of the people will be racists. Like, one of the core reasons we support free speech. It’s not to support racists.
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They are all progressive policy positions, not centrist, although not orthodoxically left (fuck you spell checker, I made up a word). I live in what I like to call the ‘real world’ ™ where I take into account the realities of humans and politics, but my values are strongly libertarian left. I care about equality slightly more than I care about freedom, but I care about both, a lot. Where they conflict I try to find the middle ground, not pick one over the other.
That is fine, but that doesn’t make us centrists. Lots of left wing people believe in free speech, but only really in the libertarian side of the left axis. If someone else had the time and inclination to lead the party, I would be writing a book destroying many sacred cows of the left, from the libertarian left perspective. Left orthodoxy is as useless as it is an oxymoron.
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Fuck, all of the words in politics are broken by association.
This thing that we do in practically all of our policies, where we find a new way to let people live together more fairly and productively without having to crush their beliefs, seize their means of production, or demand excessive compliance with authoritae. This thing is the thing that keeps me hanging around here.
I think this thing is of great strategic importance.
This article here got me thinking about it today.
29% to minor parties.
Traditional alegiances are in tatters.
The country needs a new way to have a unifying force.
Why not us?
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Why does that make us centrists? Why bother to talk about where we sit on the political axis at all? It is pretty much meaningless. I find the concept of a political centre to be bollocks of the highest order. On what measure? If the ALP is left and the Liberal Party right, we don’t sit in the centre, we are to the left of the ALP. We are to the libertarian of all the main parties, Greens included. The LDP are possibly more libertarian but they are to the right, by a lot.
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Whatever. So you don’t like a word.
I’m looking for any sign at all that you actually understand what I’m talking about.
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I’m not a centrist, never have been. Words in politics have meaning, I am of the libertarian left.
I think you are talking jibberish in the context of the widely accepted interpretations of words. I am not a centrist in any way, shape or form. If you want a politics of the centre, it is not something I can relate to or support.
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