Australia Day change of date discussion


#21

So you want to enact racial segregation and/or discrimination in an effort to recreate one or more no-longer-existant sovereignties and pretend the last two centuries didn’t happen, all so we can go the New Zealand route instead.

I don’t think you’ve thought that through.

Fortunately, the majority of Australian politicians are already indigenous elders. :roll_eyes:

Still internally debating whether a thorough response of this post would actually be helpful. Because holy crap is there a lot wrong there, but the time investment of refuting it when you’re advocating stuff that’s clearly against the party constitution and there’s nearly no popular support for changing the date of Australia day anyway…


(Tim Challis) #22

If that were true Section 44 would not be the cause of all the recent embarrassment would it?


#23

Nah. It’s very possible to have been born here, have grown up here, be characteristic of here, and yet have potential entitlement to dual citizenship by way of parentage or some other legal quirk. Which is exactly what happened in some of the disqualification cases, eg Nick Xenophon.


(Frew) #24

Yeah that would be alright, better than Federation Day (January 1) and invasion day.

Negotiating a Treaty with indigenous representatives is already our policy. Got it up last congress despite your opposition. :sunglasses:


(Peter Lawler) #25

Perhaps each state should consider having its own ‘Nation Day’ or similar, until such time as all states agree on federal recognition. I mean, my impression is that is the general idea of how the Federal Constitution is meant to work - states go alone until a majority agree, unless there is clear explicit statement in the Federal Constitution that a state cannot do a thing. And I’m fairly confident Australia Day isn’t mentioned in the Federal Constitution…


#26

After you walked it back from “completely indefensible” to merely “looks okay on the surface but falls apart under any sort of scrutiny”. It’s a bad bit of policy rooted in racist power plays mostly from a subset of the Aboriginal population. As can be seen from actually reading the Uluru Statement from the Heart, looking up what a treaty is, what sovereignty is, etc. Fortunately only a minor, inconsequential bit of bad policy, but nonetheless still wrong.

I don’t expect you to ever actually admit to that, however, no matter how clear it becomes. You’re too invested in the sunk cost fallacy, the fallacy of origins, and sheer collectivist mindset.


(Liam) #27

Before this conversation gets too off topic, what I’m gathering is that the majority would like Australia to become a republic and then to move Australia day to that day and have a Republic Day or something similar, preferably in the January - March range.


(twisty) #28

I’m not a big fan of public holidays. That’s probably because public holidays don’t mean much to cows …

So, I don’t much care when Australian humans celebrate … whatever. Just do it, and lets move on.


#29

Jordan Raskopoulos has published this video, proposing the day to be changed to 8th of May, or “May 8” as she put it to sound like “Maate!” despite the use of the American date format.

To me, the day is just another day off for me, so I’m passive about when the occasion is held, but I like her logic.

Thoughts?


(Laura) #30

Posting the link to this new video: ‘Australia Day’ : Interviews with the international community,
shot at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin.

With love to you all from Berlin

(tldr all the comments above)


(Alex Jago) #31

There’s one issue which has been raised regarding deferring it until ‘Republic Day’ becomes a thing - actually getting the Republic isn’t going to be any less divisive than just changing the damn date to something else.

An alternate viewpoint is that it’s better to have it on the 26th, because it pushes us to be more critical of our history.


(Tim Challis) #32

Still doesn’t work because all of the other colonies started their guilt-fests (if they chose to have one) on different dates than N.S.W.


(Mofosyne) #33

I like to mention that if we are to change the date to “Treaty Day/Australia Day”. This would be a good opportunity to have a temporary sortition based deliberative assembly to create a revised Australian Constitution, done as a collaboration between the general Australian public and the Indigenous community. This revised constitution can then be enacted after a referendum and marked as a rebooted Australian day.


Oh and chill out @Frew and @jedb let’s moderate our language.


(twisty) #34

In an era when nuance is dead, and civility is scorned as a weakness, I am reluctant to admit to equivocation about Australia Day. It has never carried much resonance for me. As the child and grandchild of Australian Imperial Force veterans, Anzac Day always touched a deeper chord.

But just as I respect the rights of those who consider Anzac Day a glorification of war, so I also respect the deep sense of loss Indigenous Australians express about January 26. Surely we are big enough to accept the expression of doubts about both Anzac Day and Australia Day? Surely we can adapt those dates to unify and heal, rather than to wield them to bludgeon other Australians into conformity?

Perhaps a bit more commemoration and a bit less celebration. Change the attitude, not the date.


(Laura) #35

my 2 cents y’all :wink:


(Laura) #36

Can we please talk about any topic other than ‘changethedate’,

say pick any one out of:

  • Andrew Forrest consulting the government on Indigenous matters or its consequences such as the Cashless Welfare Card, how this might impact all job seekers on government allowance very soon

  • the new stolen generation / rates of Indigenous child removal higher than ever

  • Indigenous youth suicide rates being the highest in the world and why that might be

  • children as young as 10 are being put in prisons, children are being put in adult prisons, abuses by guards

  • Forced closure of remote communities known as ‘Homelands’ in recent years / Land grabbing of Homelands for mining companies / resulting homelessness and/or incarceration in new ‘culturally appropriate’ racially segregated apartheidish prisons

  • incarceration rates and black deaths in custody, lack of good legal representation and people being imprisoned with no evidence.

  • the failures/abuses of the NT ‘intervention’

  • The meaning and definition of the word Genocide.

  • etc.


#37

You are welcome to start another thread for that. But this one is literally titled “Australia Day change of date discussion”. You’re asking to go thoroughly off topic.

The indigenous community makes up the vast majority of the Australian public. Because on an individual level nearly all non-naturalised Australian citizens are indigenous, even if European ethnicities are not. Consider using aboriginal instead. Precision of language is important.

Assuming aboriginal is what you meant, they are already part of the general Australian public. Specifically a subset defined by ethnicity/race. So you’re advocating an idea where the Australian public is separated along racial lines to negotiate a treaty with itself. That is a nonsensical idea that goes directly against Pirate values.

Revising the Australian constitution would be a good thing to do, however, even though it’s incredibly unlikely to get off the ground. Maybe we could leave less to convention this time around. Have you considered advocating for a large sortition from Australian citizens as a whole in order to fulfill the task, as would be appropriate for a democracy?

As far as I can tell my language already is moderate.

Polls for changing the date of Australia day tend to get 15-25% in favour. Polls for becoming a republic tend to get 35-40% in favour, edging up to 50/50 whenever Elizabeth being replaced is considered. The specifics depend who you ask, but one of those things is clearly easier to accomplish than the other.


(Alex Jago) #38

Thanks for the numbers, but I stand by my comment, because becoming a republic is a much bigger change than changing the date of a public holiday.


#39

I should note that the support for changing the date of Australia day is significantly higher amongst the aboriginal population (a touch higher than 50%). Doesn’t change the overall lack of popularity for the proposal though.

Standard disclaimers about these numbers being ripped from quick websearches and sources referenced on Wikipedia apply.


(Laura) #40

yea. how do I make a reply post into a new thread again?

My point for posting it here is that the change the date debate is thorougly dominating EVERY discussion about Indigenous issues everywhere to distract from the issues that are actually ruining people’s lives as we speak.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that changing the date is pointless unless there is some meaningful change for Indigenous people on this continent. It is a valid position and relevant to the change of date discussion.
Any of the suggested topics can be turned into its own forum thread. I would encourage this.

I support the #fuckthedate #changethesystem first mob.