Jordan Peterson | Cambridge Union


(Steven) #221

Yeah, precisely what I was stating


(pip linney-barber) #222

Sorry, to repeat this but i think we might be able to get to the heart of the matter through this angle.

What are the mistaken assumptions?
What is the root cause of our problems?
And…obviously, what exactly is the remedy?


(Andrew Downing) #223

I wanted to try giving you a fairly comprehensive response to this, but I don’t have the time, and now I have interstate visiting house guests, do I’m going to feed this to you one issue at a time.

Take s look at this site: http://crimetool.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/bocsar/

It’s the NSW police map of crime.
You can select for domestic violence.

Last time I looked, and it was a couple of years ago, DV in say the Hills district ran at about 300 incidents per 100,000 per year. Out west, it’s 600 per 100,000. Out in Burke, it was 4096 per 100,000. That’s like 1 in 25 people with poluce intervention level DV incidents every year.

The message from the DV organizations is that DV can happen anywhere. They just shut down that line of thinking. It can happen anywhere, just nowhere near as much in some places as others. It let’s them run a lot of feel good education programmes in rich schools and suburbs, and they miss the mark. Poverty is a big factor, and it’s ignored because it’s inconvenient, mostly for the government, but also for the ideologically inclined. Bizasre convergence of interests.

Alcohol is another related factor, in some 60% of incidents (just from recollection). The DV industry (cos that’s what it is now) says “Alcohol is not an excuse”, then they ignore it as a factor, and I’m dumbfounded. Why are we talking about excuses?
There’s a huge cultural issue right there. People with no real meaning and purpose in their lives tend to be the majority of the alcoholics and drug addicted, and that affects DV.

Indigenous communities are often at the intersection of both of the above, but none of the DV organizations want to even broach that. It’s a political hot potato.

There’s just one set of angles on this.
I’ll give you some more tomorrow.


(pip linney-barber) #224

I’m fine with a more patient, deliberate and careful approach, take your time, if you remain interested in the discussion. I think it’s easy to fall into snarky quips, i think we’ve both been guilty of this on this thread once or twice, i’m going to try and avoid that.

I won’t comment too much until you’ve presented your case further, as you say you will, but in summary, DV and the connected problem of drug and alcohol abuse (and poverty or lower economic status - from the crime map), are all linked to a sense of meaninglessness. Fair summary?


(Andrew Downing) #225

Not a bad summary, but I’d add that the headline initiatives seem to ignore this, plus they just fall all over themselves trying to avoid indigenous or immigration related DV because PC means it’s too hard. You might get called a racist and lose your job.


(pip linney-barber) #226

Can we just stick to the broader analysis for now? Just so as not to get sidetracked.


(Andrew Downing) #227

Well, my claim was that these organizations are making bad assumptions. These are some of them.


(pip linney-barber) #228

So…? Are you bored of this Andrew or just taking time, as i said earlier the latter is fine. We have ‘meaninglessness’ as a cause of DV, and i think suicide…especially among men? This is your explanation of the ‘root-cause,’ following jp.

So what are the ‘mistaken assumptions’ that current stakeholders, government departments etc operating with?

These arent assumptions though, right? These are perceived practices. What are the underlying assumptions?

And finally, what is yours and jp’s, or as far as you understand him, remedy for DV and suicide?


(Andrew Downing) #229

Taking time. I’m currently hiking around Sydney with visitors. No time for more than off the cuff responses.


(pip linney-barber) #230

Cheers. No worries, enjoy the air. I’ll actually be off grid for three or four doors but i’m very much preferring this thread being less confrontational, as it has been over the last few days and i hope we can continue in this style.


(Richard) #231

Here is an interesting interview of Howard Bloom done by JP. I am keen to hear any feedback. Thank you.


(Andrew Downing) #232

OK, well that was an good discussion with Howard Bloom, who turned out to be a way more interesting character than I knew about so, thanks for that, but I’m not sure why you posted it here.