Others we are around and know, especially those we are intimate with, familial, closely associated too.
That’s an odd statement. Really?
You are making my points for me.
Hi.
I’d like to share with you some words of Roxley Foley, keeper of the sacred fire at the Aboriginal tent embassy in Canberra, son of actor/activist turned historian Gumbaynggirr man Gary Foley and also grandson of former professor of nuclear physics at Flinders University turned anti-nuclear activist/whistleblower Dr Dennis Matthews.
I hope his words will give folks a sense of just how embedded in the federation’s structures racism is in Australia, as they do with me, and how there certainly are black power folks around in this country who do seek to empower the wider community in solidarity with each other. I ask everyone to put your preconceptions aside for a minute and read with an open mind.
Originally posted on Facebook on October 16th 2018.
(emphasis mine)
Thought today might be a good time to remind people what kind of feelings and memories royal visits can bring up for our community.
For example, 1954.
I remember that in 1954 Queen Elizabeth on her first trip to Australia as Queen personally signed a law that permitted the ethnic cleansing of the Australian Capital Territory, clearing it of resident Aboriginal Peoples. Whilst on Australian soil she was the Queen of Australia exercising all power that she had as Queen of Australia…
The display of sycophantic fawning today makes me want to hurl
The kid who thought it would be fun to dress up like a Nazi now thinks it’s fun to tour his families most successful venture of genocidal theft, subjugation and apartheid white supremacy.
The modern day jewel of the empire open for anyone’s business.
The country of convicts and their keepers who’s murderous squatter fathers devised a federation based on eugenic ideals and complete disregard or all true law, the alliance that once dreamed of breaking away from Brittan because it was “too polluted” by “its” colonies.
The Bastard colony gone feral.
I think even the royals bare this place with as much disdain as we hold for it.
Even Elizabeth was quoted recently saying if Australia wanted to be a republic it should stop waiting or her to die and get on with it.
Australia you don’t get to be a republic until you grow up as a nation and face your history and your current illegal occupation.
Learn from this history not to fell guilt or shame, feel fucking angry and know who to be angry at, you have been conned n ripped of too.
Ditch your royals and ditch your government
Community led mass civil disobedience till we grind this corporation to a halt should be the only show of “treaty” by the Australian people we accept.
It’s not an act a lesser parliament or a land corporation can do with any legitimacy.
Trying to sign a document before there is even a table to sit at.
A conversation to stop a conversation.
you help us shut this shit down it also guarantees Australia remembers how to keep it’s parliaments and corporations to account.
No new constitution unless we are at the table as equal parties to drat our future.
Fuck constitutional recognition
Fuck your Crown.
If Harry wants to discuss his families claim to my land, I’m waiting at the Tent Embassy by big ol fire in front of a big ol sign saying SOVEREIGNTY, his silver spoon education better of taught him the meaning of the word, we need to talk about what was never ceded.
Link to the original ordinance of 1954 -->
https://aiatsis.gov.au/…/files/catalogue_resources/51691.pdf
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And right there folks, is lived experience, and it aint that of a white man.
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And right there you have a white women in Germany relating to it. Not so hard apparently.
No it’s not, but it first needs to be heard. Without the telling no amount reasoning will get you there.
You seem to be missing something. It’s like you are arguing with some phantom of your imagination.
There are zero people here arguing for racism.
There are zero people here arguing to ignore racism.
The argument is, don’t fight racism by creating more of it.
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When you ignore biology you inadvertently perpetuate disadvantage, that is what i am saying. I understand that many non-racists approach the issue of skin pigment with good faith blindness, we are all equal, regardless of skin colour. But our lived experience is impacted by our skin colour. Growing up with white skin in Australia is quite different to growing up with black skin, in regard to opportunity and prejudice, do you accept that statement?
If so, your biology, therefore, matters. But recognition of this does not mean division, or more racism, it means actually breaking down disadvantage, together.
I know no one here is arguing for racism, nor arguing to ignore it, but your strategies, though perfectly well intentioned, do not go far enough. I am arguing for a different approach to understanding the issue (and it’s not just racism, the same can be applied to all identities especially gender). The 2nd wave of anti-racism is recognition of difference. I am arguing for the 2nd wave, you and others, for the first, which is equality.
There are no ghosts, Andrew, this is a perfectly valid disagreement we are having and it is useful.
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You know, when i started this thread i really didn’t expect the discussion that has ensued. I am quite shocked actually, but that’s ok. I hope that those taking part and those reading are aware that i am not needlessly taking up this polemic for pernicious reasons. I do, genuinely think it is important and i have the upmost respect for those who are engaging.
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I wouldn’t say it’s hard pers se, but it does require a certain amount of effort to search out voices I am not in contact with every day or in my regular life, a will to actively hold back and listen, and reflection of what was heard. This does not mean I can’t have my own conflicting opinions, but in my reflections I would try to reflect on those and try and understand why they might be different.
After hearing several different opionions in a particular demographic, one starts to notice where the individual members differ in their opinion and where they ALL allign with each other; suffice to say this allignment doesn’t always align with the dominant (non-demographic) culture or opinion.
quite.
The argument is more about how to define racism and not at all about for/against.
So do I. I might even say this issue is quintessential.
Personally I don’t care much for dictionary or sociology definitons of the terms to describe injustice, I care about on-the-ground realities for everyone, from grandmothers seeking the return of their stolen grand-children to the child’s extended family / community, to invasions of multimillionairs’ privacy by intelligence agencies.
On that note, I’d like to invite everyone here in a non-coercive way, to pick up a book called “Decolonizing Solidarity: Dilemmas and Directions for Supporters of Indigenous Struggles” which was written by Clare Land and published in 2015.
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Strategy? I haven’t even discussed strategy.
We didn’t even get past the starting premise.
Your “2nd wave” seems to involve talking to people to understand each other better. That’s always a good idea. It’s why I’m a free speech advocate, but I don’t know how that gets to be the second wave of anything. Just do it all the time.
If you read the NC minutes, you will find that we are in fact trying to arrange to reach out to some representatives of the Aboriginal people’s of Australia at the moment. Out latest NC member @John_Wilson is arranging a Pirate<=>Aboriginal meeting IRL, up in Queensland.
Your 2nd wave also seems to be about recognizing differences. Good luck with that. It’s a minefield. The only way it’s going to work is difference at an individual level like I’ve been advocating.
The original question in this thread seems to have been lost. A bill was put to the parliament to say that “It’s OK to be white.”. As a result of so many people in politics accepting the framing of this in terms of identity politics, Pauline just won. She just scored a whole lot of new voters for her side, on the basis that they just observed their own government rejecting the idea that there is nothing wrong with their skin colour.
A far better response would have been to put an amendment to the bill to suggest that it’s okay to be white, black, green, purple, whatever. If Pauline rejected the amendment then her racism is exposed. If she accepts it, then it’s neutral. Too easy. Done.
@LMK, please don’t interpret my comment as belittling your efforts. It was a response to a claim that what you are doing is not possible.
Roxley Foley was born decades after 1954 and so has no memories of back then no matter how much he wants to imply otherwise. He was born Australian, grew up Australian, and has always had sovereignty as an Australian citizen like most everyone else here, regardless of his misunderstanding of that concept.
And now, based on that statement you’ve posted, he appears to be trying to stir up racial hate and rebellion in order to create some sort of aboriginal ethnostate. He’s in the right place for that at least, since that was more or less one of the original demands of the tent embassy.
He’s a fringe radical and I am less than impressed.
You’ve been arguing that different ethnicity and gender produces viewpoints so different that they cannot be communicated. Never mind that if we cannot communicate different viewpoints then representative democracy cannot work and we might as well disband now. According to what you have expressed in this thread, the best solution is to actively discriminate based on race and gender.
So I’m going to have to disagree with Andrew here. There is at least one person here arguing for racism and it is you.
But by all means, continue. It’s always good to reexamine arguments with good debate, double check that they’re valid, and so forth.
I feel like a line was crossed here unnecessarily.
Assume positive intent, then act accordingly.
Avoiding calling a spade a spade doesn’t do anyone any favours. I have no doubt intent is positive. Arguably people being completely certain they’re doing the right thing is the cause of a lot of the problems in the world at the moment.
As I said, I welcome further arguments and civil discussion about why discrimination is actually a good idea. Helps to avoid positions becoming dogma.
I disagree.
It leaves people with room to move. If you also assume that other people may know things that you don’t, then you’ve also left room for yourself to move.
This turns out to be even more important if you think you are dealing with people who do not have good intentions. It’s subtle. Try playing out a few scenarios in your head and see how they work out. I described one such scenario earlier in relation to the handling of the Hanson bill itself.
Dear Andrew, no offence taken, I just wanted to clarify that it does take ongoing effort and I am by no means an authority on issues I do not live on a daily basis and only occupied myself with in recent years. I’d like to add that, as much as I can empathize with some of the experiences that are demography-specific, I will never know what the experience is like in the same way they do, just as you can’t feel what it was like for me to fear imminent death by drowning for me and my brother if you haven’t had a similar experience. You can try to imagine and have a conceptual understanding of it, probably some feelings arising from that, but it will always be an outsider’s perspective.
Dear @jedb.
He remembers the fact in the same way that I remember that in 1789 the Bastille was stormed by the French poor to find only one or two prisoners. He doesn’t claim to have been there at the time. Your misinterpretation seems to show lack of a good faith approach already from the start.
I thought in a monarchy, only the queen (or king) is technically sovereign. But in any case, expecting colonized peoples to happily take on the identity of the colonizers and ditch their centuries-old struggle for self-determination is a bit rich to say the least. Remember that a few decades ago, Aboriginal people weren’t even considered human by the authorities, let alone Australian. In much the same way, I wouldn’t expect the Irish to be suddenly happy to be British either, even if there are some who jumped ship.
It is a riddle to me where you read anything about an ethnostate in Foley’s statement. I see no racial hate either, rather defiance against an oppressive government that insists on continuously taking charge of Aboriginal affairs without their consent (closing Homelands, stealing children, and still not reducing Indigenous deaths in custody, which are still disproportionally high), while it also has an increasingly oppressive attitude towards the general population.
With regard to rebellions, I was hoping you could find common ground in the recognition that the Australian government is illegitimate because it works against the interests of the people, which I’ve heard you say before.
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I am excited about this.
I’m inclined to think otherwise. What we need is dialectic thinking about individual & group, seemingly contradictory concepts.
I have to agree with this analysis.
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LoL, exactly what I wanted to write until I realized I was a less than 2h new user 
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